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Frequently Asked Questions
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Last Updated 10/24/05
We often receive email from visitors to our website who are thinking about getting a trawler, quite possibly a Selene, and adopting a serious cruising lifestyle. We also get questions from some who have already ordered a Selene. These questions are varied, but not surprisingly, a pattern does emerge. Here are some of the most Frequently Asked Questions we get, and our answers to them. Opinions expressed are necessarily those of the management. Occasionally there will even be a rant.
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What is your fuel consumption?
What are your views of full displacement vs. semi-displacement trawlers?
What features are you particularly glad you selected or specified?
What would you change about the boat if you were going to do it again?
Why did you decide on the Selene 53?
What did you do with your house and your "stuff?"
We want to do a trans-Atlantic crossing? Will the Selene handle it?
How do you handle your email when out of the US?
How do you handle voice communications when out of the US?
How do you keep up with weather forecasts when out of the US?
How do you care for your teak decks?
What were some of your initial problems with the boat and how were they solved?
What are your thoughts on the 2-stateroom vs 3-stateroom layouts?
Are you happy with your Norcold refrigerator/freezer?
Most Selenes seem to be delivered as single engine models. Why do you have twins?
What is the size of your tender? Is it big enough?
How does the boat handle in heavy seas?
What is your air draft and has it been an issue in cruising the ICW / Erie Canal, etc?
We cruise at between 1800 rpm which gives us 8.7kts through still water, and 1900 rpm which gives us 9.2kts. These speeds vary a tenth or so depending on whether we have full fuel and water. As we get lighter, they pick up a bit. We have become very comfortable cruising at the 9kt pace. Sometimes we will crank it up to 2000 and see 9.6 when there is a particularly long day in store for us.
Current plays a big part, and at a constant engine speed we have seen SOG range from 5kts to 14+!
When asked in general, we simply say we have a 9-knot boat.
What is your fuel consumption?
We have kept very detailed logs, and even measure our fuel on a daily basis to do some consumption calculations. (Floscan meters would be really nice, but we don't have them.) So, after we subtract fuel used by the generator at a conservative nominal rate of 1.25 gph (Westerbeke specs state 1.42), our consumption for the engines is averaging 5.3 gph in the mix of speeds we choose over the course of months of cruising. That is total consumption, not per engine.
What are your views full displacement vs. semi-displacement trawlers?
If you're a sailor, 9 knots in any direction, let alone straight into the wind or into zero wind, is just fine. If you're a power boater accustomed to double digit cruising some adjustment is needed. It is interesting to note, however, that there is a consistent theme when we talk with other cruisers who have trawlers capable of 15+ kts because of the semi-displacement hull and engines 2-3 times the power of ours. It's that they elect to cruise at 10 or less because the fuel consumption curve starts to go vertical as the boat moves up the speed scale.
Rant: Arguments of being able to move somewhere quickly if a weather situation develops says to me that someone isn't paying attention to the weather before setting out in the first place.
What features are you particularly glad you selected or specified?
The principal elections we made and are very happy with include twin engines, stabilizers (don't leave the dock without them), the rear stairs from the cockpit to the bridge, and the third stateroom/office instead of an 'alcove' off the master stateroom. These all work just fine for us.
Wing stations were sort of an afterthought because they were part of the base boat we used to 'model' Celebrate as we spec'd her out. We are amazed at how useful they are docking, anchoring, and running locks. Some systems available today are electronic and can control things like you would with a radio-controlled model airplane. Our wing stations are simply extensions of our Hynautic controls plus the bowthruster control. That means we don't have to learn two modalities for controlling things, and I think that is important.
We almost skipped over the watermaker, but added it at the end and cannot imagine cruising in the Bahamas without one.
Similarly, we initially opted for the mast and boom, but changed to the radar arch and have never looked back. The arch handsomely holds the radar and two domes (KVH Tracvision and a dummy that holds GPS receivers). It drops our air draft by about 4'. The choice did force us to install a hydraulic davit for the tender, but that has turned out to be a blessing as well, compared to motorizing the mast and a boom to do the lifting.
Finally, we love the warmth, lightness, and color of our cherry interior.
What would you change about the boat if you were going to do it again?
After over 10,000 miles in 2 years of liveaboard cruising, we'd take the boat again exactly they way she is. That said, there are a couple of things we'd change, but the bottom line is that none of the changes are really necessary.
There are two major areas: electrical power and electronics, specifically chartplotting and depth sounding. See our comments on those in the "Electronics" section of this FAQ.
On the subject of power, when we're at a dock we have no problems. However, we spend about 75% of our time on the hook in the style of cruising we have adopted, and have done little to modify our personal behavior. So, it isn't unusual to be making water, running the coldplate freezer, trying to wash or dry some clothes, and Andrea wants to blow dry her hair in the air-conditioned staterooms while dinner is cooking in the electric oven.
Well, it just doesn't all work that way with a 12.5kw genset. We have learned to schedule and balance our consumption, and have no major issues but given another chance we would consider either a larger (15kw) genset or alternatively a second smaller one (4-5kw) to handle light loads and take the pull off the inverter. Additionally, we might think of a couple solar panels on top of the pilothouse (where there is plenty of unused room) to keep the batteries topped up without moving the boat or running the genset.
Let me reiterate, however, all this is nice to have but we have found power management to be a de-minimus issue.
Why did you decide on the Selene 53?
Go to "Why the Selene 53" on another page on our website for all the answers to this question.
What did you do with your house and your "stuff?"
Our plan was, and continues to be, to cruise for just a few years and then sell the boat as we return to our professional lives, probably in mid-late 2006. We originally planned to sell the house and store the furniture and belongings, but seeing how real estate values were climbing, we worried that we would not easily be able to return to a place we loved. So, we rented the house and stored the furniture. Others have had struggles with this but we have had a trouble-free tenant. We would do it again.
We want to do a trans-Atlantic crossing? Will the Selene handle it?
The Selene will handle it. Will you? Respectfully, ocean crossing is a tougher test of crew than of vessel, assuming the boat is well found. We understand that Selenes have been delivered on their own bottom non-stop from Hong Kong to Australia and Japan so there is little doubt as to their ocean going capability. But spending hours, and sometimes days, in even 6-8' seas is grueling. It is a romantic notion to make a crossing, but too many have started and done a 180 less than a day out.
Rant: It is interesting that in the wake of the very successful and well publicized Nordhavn Trans-Atlantic Rally in 2004, that plans for a repeat in 2006 have been cancelled owing to lack of indicated interest. It may be that all those "early adopters" were, in fact, the whole market. Exceptions will always be found, but think very, very seriously about tackling a crossing, and have some serious blue-water rotten weather under your keel before slipping the lines for the Med.
If you do want to cruise distant shores, there are services like Dockwise that will load the boat on a ship with other yachts and transport it to Europe, the Pacific, from the west coast to the east coast, etc. It saves all the slogging and wear and tear, and you wind up at the destination you're seeking.
There are many mail forwarding services that collect your mail and send it to you wherever and whenever you request it. We use Annapolis Post Box and have had flawless service in the two years we have been playing tag with bills, magazines, and other stuff. They are kind enough to trash all the junk mail (non-first class). They use FedEx two-day unless we request otherwise. In the Bahamas and in Canada that actually takes 3-4 days because it has to cycle through customs. You don't have to be in Annapolis to start their services. www.geocities.com/annapolispostbox/
How do you handle your email when out of the US?
We are delighted with our email provided by OCENS.. [www.ocens.net] It is blindingly fast and includes a full "Outlook"-like email, contact, calendar, etc., called "I-Scribe." Alternatively you still can use Outlook or Outlook Express. We connect via our Globalstar satellite phone (see below). Although it only works at 9600 bps, the technology compresses stuff and does not turn the 'line' around continuously - it sends and receives all messages in burst mode. It even recovers if the transmission is interrupted mid-way through and picks up where it left off. As an example, we routinely send half a dozen text emails in less than 25 seconds of connect time!. We got the software from Chris Parker who is the weather guru in the Bahamas and Caribbean (The Caribbean Weather Center www.mwxc.com).
How do you handle voice communications when out of the US?
We got a lot of conflicting stories on what cell service works and doesn't work. Gave up on sorting it out and subscribed to Globalstar, a satellite phone service. We have been very satisfied with its use in the Bahamas. They offer several plans. Because Andrea keeps up some of her coaching practice, we subscribe to a package that gets the cost under 50¢ per minute. Cellular roaming charges seem to be $1-$2 per minute. We subscribed to the service through Andy Cool at Explorer Satellite Communications, www.explorersatellite.com, in Ft. Lauderdale.
How do you get weather forecasts when out of the US?
In Canada, weather forecasts are broadcast continuously on the same VHF channels as in the US. The Maritimes are subdivided into 15 regions, and one must attend to which forecast is applicable at the moment. Reports alternate between French and English every 20 minutes. Cruisers must listen to wind forecasts and check the fetch and currents to make their own projections of sea state. All units of measure are metric.
In the Bahamas, NOAA weather is not available . Near popular destinations, forecasts are provided daily via a volunteer VHF network. They all start on VHF-16 and switch to another channel. These include:
Nassau - Ranger (Nick Wardell) @0730
Highborne Cay 0800
Staniel Cay area Blue Yonder @ 0800
Georgetown Cruisers Net @ 0810 (VHF-68)
In addition, and to cover us when out of range of these stations, we subscribe to OCENS Weathernet. (www.ocens.net) Using our Globalstar phone, we download from a huge menu of text and graphic (GRB) files and can get 3-5-7 day forecasts for our current lat/lon for winds, precip, sea state, etc.
In the Bahamas, our best source is the above mentioned Chris Parker (www.mwxc.com) who, for $25/mo or less on a long term deal, emails us a comprehensive weather summary and forecast every morning. You can see a sample here.
A lot of cruisers get this kind of information using SSB radio. This requires a lot of investment in radios, antennas, tuners, modems, etc. We did not feel the investment was justified in light of the fact that our satellite phone seems to be riding the wave of the future and services available are becoming more and more economical.
By the way, given the plethora of sources of weather info, be prepared for some serious conflicts. We have found it best to stick with one source as primary and the others as interesting incidentals, but to avoid trying to reconcile one with another.
How do you care for your teak decks?
Some wince at the thought of teak decks, but we opted for them because we just like them a lot. We actually are delighted with them. They are about the best non-skid surface available short of that mil-spec sandpaper you see on USCG and other commercial vessels. The decks are laid down with adhesive, not the traditional screw and bung process. Therefore, the problems with leaking that characterize teak decks sometimes just don't apply. About once every two weeks we use regular boat soap and a fine-mesh 3M pad on a mop handle to wash them down. Every 4-5 months we use a 50% dilution of teak cleaner and the same pad, followed by a 50% dilution of brightener. It only takes about an hour, and they are still golden.
What were some of your initial problems with the boat and how were they solved?
It is no surprise that after commissioning, problems surface that were not detectable in that process. That's what a warranty is for, and in our case Jet Tern stood squarely behind every issue we had. Specifically, it turned out that the stabilizer hydraulic and cooling systems were improperly installed at the factory. The solution was to re-hose the pump, and change the cooling to take water off the engine instead of a separate electric pump.
The other issues were minor and most involved a leak somewhere in the fresh water pressure system, all of which were solved by another quarter turn on a hose clamp. We did have to replace half a dozen teak planks in the deck. Again the manufacturer stood behind us, even shipping the teak so as to get a perfect match.
What are your thoughts on the 2-stateroom vs 3-stateroom layouts?
The layout of the master SR with its alcove did not work for us because we really need an 'office' where I can do my 5am puttering while Andrea stacks some more zzzzs. Also, we have guests aboard from time to time so there is bunk space if there are more than 4 of us, and great suitcase/clothes space on the bunks in the little stateroom if there are only 4. In our boat, the head is in the shower compartment, fully covered, and has never been a problem even to the most sensitive tush.
Are you happy with your Norcold refrigerator/freezer?
Delighted. We've heard some bad things about Norcold from time to time, but in our experience it has been bulletproof. We would do it again.
In our case, the reality is that the staircase to the boat/bridge deck was a major selling point. We use it constantly as a convenience, and when raising or lowering the dinghy, it is an essential safety feature. Absent the stairs we'd have to leave the dink at some stage of hanging while we changed places via the pilothouse/salon route. It would demand two to handle that operation, whereas in most conditions, I can handle it safely alone.
Having said that, we find the cockpit to be more than adequate for all our needs. It's not as though we're entertaining a dozen guests - the bridge is fine for that.
A huge bonus is the storage space we gain under the staircase. We store two 30-Amp cords, a 30/50 Amp combiner, a 50-Amp cord, two 50' water hoses - all comfortably coiled and easily accessed. Without the staircase that pile would consume the lazarette.
Finally, we keep two folding bikes on the boat deck. The thought of hauling them down through the pilothouse and salon with all those pedals and handles to engrave the beautiful woodwork along the way is terrifying.
So for us, it's an unequivocal bias toward the staircase in the cockpit.
Most Selenes seem to be delivered as single engine models. Why do you have twins?
You have been forewarned that what you're reading is the opinion of the management, and occasionally it morphs into a rant. This is one of those cases. As a disclaimer, know that we have come from 20 years of twin-engine Grand Banks so we have an experience-based bias to twins having lost an engine two times, and each time in some messy weather.
Having said that, we believe that a vessel of Celebrate's size, weight, and value demands the best in terms of features that provide safety, security and insurace in addition to performance. Twin engines are an example of this. We would not have purchased the boat if twin engines were not available as an option.
Many opt for a single as a cost-saving measure. As it turns out, we wonder how much the actual net incremental cost is when compared to a single with a "get home."
Wing engines are seldom run. As a result, they may be hard to start or even not run at the precise moment when they are needed. And believe me, when they are needed, they are needed NOW.
Wing engines require separate inventories of spare parts and separate maintenance schedules. This is a hidden cost. They also require separate controls for gears and throttle.
Wing engines are probably insufficient to move an 85,000 lb boat in a seaway. Think about it!
We believe the argument about exposure of running gear does not apply to the Selene. It is designed as a single with a deep keel, and the twin installation does not change that design. As a result, we have a full 15" from the bottom of our wheels to the bottom of the keel. Unless we hit something exactly on one side or the other, the keel provides excellent protection for the running gear. Our stabilizers would likely take the hit in that unusual circumstance. If our running gear is deemed to be exposed and at risk, then the wing engine running gear is similarly vulnerable if one is fair in citing that risk..
We run at 1800-1900 rpm and average 9kts. We burn 5.5 gph, excluding fuel consumed by the genset. This is not a huge difference from a 400+hp single at the same speed.
Twins provide great maneuverability. If you have a single, you need a bowthruster and probably a sternthruster. These further reduce the perceived cost advantage of a single. In fairness, we do have a bowthruster and love it.
What is the size of your tender? Is it big enough?
We have a 240 Zodiac 'Yachtline' dink with a 25 Yamaha 4-stroke. It's about 11' long, but when it is raised to the boat deck for cruising, the tilted up motor adds 2'. Everything still fits fine.
It came as a package and is more than adequate for all our needs. Running lights are standard, as is an integral fuel tank. It has been trouble free.
How does the boat handle in heavy seas?
We have run in conditions ranging to 6-8' on the nose and on the beam. The stabilizers do a great job; do not be without them. Even with them, we did roll a lot once in Long Island Sound out by the Race when we got 6-8' of square green water on the beam when max tidal current opposed unforecasted 25kt winds creating that awful short steep chop we all hate. Otherwise she's really steady. We've run comfortably in 5-7' beam seas with a 12 second period. In a head sea the pitching is not a distraction. We've never gotten green water onto the bow. She is particularly dry on the bridge - I can only think of one wind-assisted splash finding us there. In our Grand Banks 46 we were well practiced in ducking! I think the immense weight of the Selene gives her strong shoulders and she just chugs ahead shrugging most of the weather aside.
We are 'bottomphobic.' Even have two independent depth sounders. We believe we draw 5'7" with full fuel and water. We plan 5'9 - 6'0 for margin. The specs indicate less, but remember, we are living aboard as we cruise and have a TON of stuff on that non-liveaboards would not require. I bet we have 200 lbs of books alone. In our five months in the Bahamas in the winter of 2005, we have been vigilant, but never really felt we were pushing the margins. Charts are in metric, and 1.8 meters is 6', and we draw the line there easily.
There is no difference in draft between the twin and the single.
Are you satisfied with the electronics?
First, a confession/disclaimer - the configuration of electronics was of our own design based on boat shows, literature, and some dock talk. We did not sit down with a professional, and in reflection, perhaps we should have. We do have most of it right and the specs are laid out on our Electronics page.
Our main complaint is with the Furuno Navnet chartplotter/radar. The radar is fine, but we think the chartplotter is slow and cumbersome. Next time I'd put a Dell under the pilothouse helm (there's enough room for a server farm), and set up a wireless network with a high nit display in the pilothouse and on the bridge using Maptech or Cap'n software. Put the screens side by side with either Furuno or Raymarine radar.
We have two digital depth sounders for comfort and backup. I'd pick the Interphase forward looking / side looking sonar for one of them if I were doing it again. We calibrate one to depth of water, and the other to depth under the keel.
What is your air draft and has it been an issue in cruising the ICW / Erie Canal, etc?
Our air draft measured from the water to the anchor light on the mast atop the arch is 20'6". We had a yard in Wilmington, NC, cut the steaming light mast and make it removable - pretty simple. That dropped our air draft from 20'6" to 19' and let us easily travel the Erie Canal which maintains a 20' clearance. As we did travel it, though, I'd bet we never encountered a bridge with less than 21'.of clearance.
We were pleasantly surprised to note how many bridges on the ICW that we used to wait for on our Grand Banks 46 which can be easily cleared in our Selene. At the same time, we have become comfortable making daily runs off shore, and do so as much as we can to avoid bridges as well as ICW traffic and thin spots.
We want to go cruising like you did but don't know whether to sell our house as we do. Any advice?
Of course that question depends on your own circumstance and means. In our case, we knew we would only be cruising a very few years and would then sell the boat and return to our professional lives. Looking at the real estate market in Annapolis, we realized that the appreciation of our home was likely to be a lot greater than the returns we could get in the market if we liquidated our equity. So we leased it out and have had a very fortunate experience. Most importantly, we know where we have a base, and where we can return to later in 2006 as we wrap up our adventuring.
We haven't added any electronics. In addition to some dissatisfaction with the Furuno NavNet chart plotting system mentioned above, we have found no value in the cellular amplifier we put in. We aren't even sure it works correctly, but given the ubiquitous coverage of cellular nowadays, it has been a moot point. We have really never felt out of touch because of limited cellular range.
Why are you selling Celebrate?
We made our plans in early 2002 to take a break from our busy and stressful professional lives and go cruising for up to three years. It was a time that worked well with our jobs, and it was a time that worked well with our families. Now we are well into our third year, and have begun to re-develop some professional opportunities. As much as we will miss the life, it has been everything we had hoped for and some more. It is time for someone else to campaign Celebrate - she ought not be tied to a dock for a long time.
As we sense more patterns in the questions we receive we'll try to add them. Meanwhile, feel free to post your own question or pass along some feedback: